这有点如同文革中两派争斗的现象,但埃及军队和警察处于中立。上述新闻误导大家眼球以为军队枪杀了30人。其实是两派冲突引起,军队是违法地充当了警察的位置。但是要不如此,你想象一下某国文革开始武斗情况。
只有2年民主进程的埃及能达到目前社会不乱,军队及警察中立己相当不错。试想我们去年抗议钓鱼岛事件引发的混乱,只是用了日本车就被砸车爆头,要是真有反对意见的人上街是什么情况。恐怕不会比落后我们三十年的埃及表现得更包容性和秩序性。
本帖最后由 三苗 于 2013-7-8 09:44 编辑

31# 向永
1、你的类比十分可笑,政治和社会派别及其冲突根本是司空见惯的事情,和文革有半毛钱关系?

2、你的"逻辑"更加幼稚,在派别冲突中死的人就不是死人了?这样就伟光正了?是不是还要下发文件学习一下伟大意义?

3、埃及军方在此次事件中的作用根本是公开的,穆斯林兄弟会的那些人难道是自觉自动地进了监狱?难道穆尔西是自己主动自愿地进入兵营?你这样洗地太愚蠢了吧!太拙劣了吧!

本来政治和社会冲突稀松平常,你这样欲盖弥彰,呵呵。
1、军方不得已的控制民选总统。没有军方和警察的“维稳”死的人会更多。
2、同样司空见惯的事,埃及军方和警察能控制了死亡的人数比文革强。
3、军方违法充当了宪法法院执行机构或国会、议会等机构的作用,尽管军方是违法的。今后也肯定会为此付出代价的。但比较而言,埃及军方与其他执政主体用军队镇压另一方的政治高压有本质区别。穆斯林兄弟会照样还可以聚会抗议。换独裁国家试试看。当然用“维稳”这个词是有点侮辱了埃及军方和警察。
34# 向永

请问,除了你之外,还有谁在这个帖子里反复把埃及政变和文革相提并论了?对比了?树个靶子自己打很有趣吗?无聊不无聊?


是不是因为有了文革,这个世界上所有的事情就全部伟光正了?禁止评论了?莫名其妙!
34# 向永

1、你也知道埃及军方是"违法"的啊,无论是否"得已",也就是说,你把你自己前面说的话吞回去了?这样就好。
34# 向永
2、不好意思,埃及军方射杀穆斯林兄弟会支持者的新闻就在BBC首页。你是看不到呢还是看不懂?回去后就转,复制粘贴容易得很、快得很。
8 July 2013 Last updated at 08:56 GMT



At least 40 people have been killed in a shooting incident in Cairo, say officials and the Muslim Brotherhood, amid continuing unrest over the removal of President Mohammed Morsi.

The Brotherhood says its members were fired on while they were holding a sit-in at a Presidential Guard barrack.

But the army said a "terrorist group" had tried to storm the barracks.

Mr Morsi, an Islamist and Egypt's first freely elected president, was ousted by the army last week after mass protests.

Scores of people have been killed since the unrest began last weekend.

Mr Morsi is believed to be held at the Presidential Guard Club, in the eastern Nasr City district of the capital.

Continue reading the main story
Analysis
Ahmed Maher

BBC Arabic, Cairo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was a sombre mood in Cairo as people woke up to the news of killing and bloodshed.

Eyewitness accounts of what happened outside the Presidential Guards Club have inflamed the already simmering tensions. For Egyptians, it is shocking news no matter who started the gunfight.

The deadly incident is not the first. On Friday, three protesters were killed at the same spot in unclear circumstances but against a backdrop of a stand-off between the army and the pro-Morsi protesters.

The latest shooting is likely to lead to a political breakdown as the Islamist Nour party, the largest Salafist group, withdrew from marathon talks with interim president Adly Mansour to form a caretaker government.

His supporters - many of them members of the Muslim Brotherhood movement he comes from - have been staging a sit-in there demanding his reinstatement.

After Monday morning's violence, the hardline Salafist Nour party - which had supported Mr Morsi's removal - said it was withdrawing from talks to choose an interim prime minister, describing the shooting incident as a "massacre".

'Weapons seized'

Both the Brotherhood and the Egyptian health ministry said at least 40 people had been killed, including an army officer.

Some 300 people were reported to be wounded.

TV channels broadcast images of dead and injured people being taken to a makeshift hospital in the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque, where Brotherhood supporters have been based.

But there were conflicting reports over how the violence unfolded.

The Muslim Brotherhood said the army had raided its sit-in at about 04:00 (02:00 GMT) as protesters were performing dawn prayers.

"The protesters were taken unawares and the troops used live ammunition, bird shot and tear gas," protester Alaa el-Hadidi told the BBC.

Continue reading the main story  
Bowen: Failed democratic experiment
What next for Muslim Brotherhood?

Another protester, Mahmud al-Shilli, told AFP news agency that troops had used tear gas but that a group of men in civilian clothing had then opened fire.

"The thugs came from the side. We were the target," he told AFP.

The Freedom and Justice Party, the Brotherhood's political wing - which took nearly half the seats in last year's historic election - called on Egyptian's to stage an "uprising" in response to the incident, against "those trying to steal their revolution with tanks".

It also urged "the international community and international groups and all the free people of the world to intervene to stop further massacres" and to stop Egypt becoming "a new Syria".

But in a statement read on state media, the army blamed the shooting on "an armed terrorist group" that had tried to storm the barracks.

Continue reading the main story
Army's post-Morsi roadmap

Constitution to be suspended temporarily and interim president sworn in
"Strong and competent" civilian technocratic government to be installed
Supreme Court to pass a draft law on parliamentary election and prepare for parliamentary and presidential polls
"Charter of honour" to be drawn up and followed by the media
Measures taken to empower young people and a national reconciliation committee to be formed
Coup or no coup?
World reaction
Profile: Adly Mahmud Mansour

It said an army officer was among those killed and that a number of others were wounded, some critically.

The statement said some 200 people had been arrested and were found to have weapons, ammunition and petrol bombs.

The BBC's Jim Muir in Cairo says that despite the conflicting reports, it is clear that blood has been shed, which will aggravate an already critical situation.

The withdrawal of the ultra-conservative Nour party from the political transition talks will also set back efforts to appoint a new prime minister, our correspondent adds.

Party spokesman Nadder Bakkar said it had "decided to withdraw immediately from all negotiations in response to the massacre".

Though the Islamist party had backed the army-led "roadmap" to new elections, it had blocked the appointment of two potential prime ministers because of concerns over the shape of a new constitution.

Mr Morsi was replaced on Thursday by Adly Mansour - the head of the Supreme Constitutional Court. He has pledged to hold elections soon, but has as yet given no date for them.

The army has insisted it does not want to remain in power.

On Sunday, tens of thousands of both supporters and opponents of Mr Morsi rallied in many Egyptian cities.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23222546
任何以武装形式袭击军营的情况,后果都是很严重的。这和街头暴力有本质区别。
39# 向永

1、你根据什么认为埃及军方的说法就是一定正确的?证据在哪里?


2、前面你给“街头暴力”洗地的帖子还在那里呢,你不会这么健忘吧。


3、不管是“街头暴力”还是别的什么,总之你自我标榜的“秩序”在哪里?

转进+洗地,无非如此而已。
本帖最后由 三苗 于 2013-7-9 11:18 编辑

39# 向永


前面说“街头暴力”如何如何

现在军方开枪了,“中立”的面目维持不了了,又开始……了。


“就是好来就是好”——你就会这招了我知道。
冲击军营,军队肯定开枪,否则后果是内战。你怀疑军队是否中立,看其宪法修改及事态发展吧。
42# 向永

转两条BBC 新闻,方便简单又轻松

Egypt crisis: Both sides 'disillusioned' by politics
Advertisement



10 July 2013 Last updated at 09:21 GMT Help
The main liberal opposition coalition in Egypt has rejected interim leader Adly Mansour's decree, which sets a new election timetable to try and stop the unrest.
The National Salvation Front (NSF) demanded more changes and consultation on the document.
The BBC's Rana Jawad in Cairo says that supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood are "disillusioned" with the political process. The Tamarod protest movement, which initially supported the army's intervention which ousted Islamist President Mohammed Morsi, has also said it rejects the constitutional declaration.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23251615


Egypt unrest: Liberal opposition rejects transition plan
Advertisement



10 July 2013 Last updated at 05:47 GMT Help
The main liberal opposition coalition in Egypt has rejected interim leader Adly Mansour's decree, which sets a new poll timetable to stop the unrest.
The National Salvation Front (NSF) demanded more changes and consultation on the document.
Both the Muslim Brotherhood, which supports ousted Islamist President Mohammed Morsi, and the Tamarod protest movement have rejected the decree.
Catharina Moh reports.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23250721



你评论问题的时候,连看个新闻了解下事态发展的习惯,或者能力都没有???????真可怜哪!

脑补很HIGH,是不是?
一开始,还以为三苗被修理好了,懂得什么叫证据,但是,过不了多久,又本性暴露,以己推人,要别人补脑。

中国文革时,一开始,主要是群氓攻击已经定罪的右派、反革命分子,惨无人道地迫害这些人致死,这些人死后,造反派分为两派或者几派,都自称捍卫毛主席,对方是反革命,发生局部武斗,军队介入,也说是中立的,不过,有些派别说军队偏袒,发生更大规模的冲突,如武汉的720事件。

但是,中国文革时造反是皇帝煽动的,皇帝动员之前,民间并没有信仰相反的两派,皇帝动员后,造反派,都自称捍卫皇帝,要打倒皇帝身边的阴谋家。情况与埃及完全不同。

一旦皇帝出面说,两派都是群众组织,都是忠于毛主席的,要大联合,这时,出现非常奇怪恶心的现象,在城市广场上,两派人齐刷刷地穿着红卫兵的军装,台上两派代表(还一男一女)向毛主席念大联合声明,诗朗诵一样的语言,昨天的流血全然不管了,剩下的都是心连心的革命群众了。

这是中国愚民的特有现象。

当然埃及有埃及的问题,与中国不一样,文化程度也不一样,有些地方比中国落后(如食品工业),有些地方先进,如民众逼迫总统下台的行为,在中国,不可想象。

中国当前的抗日游行,也是奉旨游行,奉旨愤怒,借机发泄,真正的矛盾是官民矛盾,但是官利用愚民以及愚民组成的军队,洗脑式地维持独裁高压统治。

在反贪上,民间的观点是一致的,但是,如何反贪,则确实有两派,一派是毛派,主张回到毛泽东年代由伟人统治,用更大的权力限制腐败,杀贪官什么的。另一派是民主宪政派,依靠制度来限制腐败。民主显然不认为毛派能解决问题,但是毛派不明白民主是怎么回事,就是三苗一类的人,稀里糊涂地反对西方民主,抗日反美,他们执政后,又是一个独裁暴力的贪污腐败政权,但是他们不承认的。

那么,对于抗日一类游行,奉旨游行,已经暴力四起,当局因不是真正的抗日,如果让暴民任意发展抗日情绪,必然引火烧身,于是马上压制下去。不压制,确实全国会一片火光,砸了寿司店,必然砸政府的日系车。

情况完全不一样的。
参加交流
44# 菜农


看来你真的是有暴露癖哎。不仅你的大脑需要修补,你的眼睛也需要。


1、睁大你的狗眼看清楚这个帖子里面说的是哪个国家发生的事情!


2、前面是谁把埃及的事情和文革相提并论的,也麻烦你睁大狗眼看清楚!
本性难改,又开始破口大骂,还大红字,你就这样气急败坏,能表明你真理在握吗?
参加交流
本帖最后由 三苗 于 2013-7-11 08:54 编辑

44# 菜农


顺便说一下哈,你整天COSPLAY复读机的表现呢

1、早已把你的愚蠢和低能表达得淋漓尽致无以复加,不需要继续了。



当然,如果你要告诉我:你除了弱智,还是弱视——或者青光眼白内障什么的,我承认,这个精神,一文不值。

2、你的这种行为呢,韩少功的小说《爸爸爸》,李国文的小说《花园街5号》里面都写了,你是在为这两本小说免费做广告么?你还真是放屁添风一以贯之啊!


46# 菜农



呵呵呵呵


这就叫做因材施教


我说了你这种蠢到家还要洋洋自得的货听不懂的话,岂不是浪费精力和时间?至于字体和颜色,这是照顾你弱智之外的弱视——你如果还有色盲色弱什么的请尽早提出,我一定会照顾你的噢。
现在埃及发生了什么事情大家都知道了吧。
【换了总统,就是换了一个经理】埃及主要收入来源是农业、旅游业、苏伊士运河航运、还有是侨汇。现在的情况和2011年的某某之春有很大差别。其军队和警察是中立性质。所以他们是政局乱、社会不乱。换作当地人的话来说 ...
向永 发表于 2013-7-5 14:30
现在的事实证明你胡说八道

埃及清场死亡人数:临时政府称278 穆兄会称2600多

埃及清场死亡人数:临时政府称278 穆兄会称2600多

人民网8月15日讯 综合外电报道,埃及临时政府官员说,14日实行宵禁以后,全国恢复了平静。在此之前,防暴警察用装甲车和推土机捣毁了抗议者在开罗的两个营地。

埃及临时政府说,14日的清场行动中有278人死亡,其中有43名警察。但是,穆斯林兄弟会的一名发言人说,警察用自动步枪向示威人群开火,打死2600多人。穆斯林兄弟会要求恢复被推翻的总统穆尔西的职务。

目击者和记者说,他们看到战地医院和临时停尸房里有尸体。随着对镇压的愤怒在蔓延,伊斯兰主义者还在在亚历山大、明亚、阿斯由特和苏伊士等城市骚乱。

埃及内政部长易卜拉欣说,警察对抗议者营地使用了最低限度的武力,仅仅使用了催泪弹。他指责穆斯林兄弟会在全国制造混乱,并且指责他们朝警察开火、袭击政府建筑并烧毁教堂。他说,临时政府在根据民众的要求恢复国家的稳定。

与此同时,埃及的临时副总统、倾向于改革的领导人埃尔巴拉迪辞职。他说, 他不想为“哪怕一滴流血”承担责任。
本帖最后由 吹笛在湖北 于 2013-8-15 12:21 编辑

从工發表於 1 小時前 | 只看該作者
清场照片,堪比柳丝:
http://news.ifeng.com/photo/hdne ... 8613017_0.shtml#p=1

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诗酒风流近散场,心情无限对斜阳,如今只剩燕双双。
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诗酒风流近散场,心情无限对斜阳,如今只剩燕双双。
病酒願爲千日醉,看花誤惹一身香,夜來有夢怕還鄉。
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诗酒风流近散场,心情无限对斜阳,如今只剩燕双双。
病酒願爲千日醉,看花誤惹一身香,夜來有夢怕還鄉。
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                    开罗大学附近,一具示威者的遗体。
诗酒风流近散场,心情无限对斜阳,如今只剩燕双双。
病酒願爲千日醉,看花誤惹一身香,夜來有夢怕還鄉。
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                      示威营地附近燃烧的大楼。
诗酒风流近散场,心情无限对斜阳,如今只剩燕双双。
病酒願爲千日醉,看花誤惹一身香,夜來有夢怕還鄉。
[img][/img]
诗酒风流近散场,心情无限对斜阳,如今只剩燕双双。
病酒願爲千日醉,看花誤惹一身香,夜來有夢怕還鄉。


                              在清场行动中丧生的人员遗体。
诗酒风流近散场,心情无限对斜阳,如今只剩燕双双。
病酒願爲千日醉,看花誤惹一身香,夜來有夢怕還鄉。
诗酒风流近散场,心情无限对斜阳,如今只剩燕双双。
病酒願爲千日醉,看花誤惹一身香,夜來有夢怕還鄉。